x2

That's what i've been saying for 15 years.

20 millions?

where did you get this number? from CIA site?

not only Turks in Western Thrace will get their lands back but also albanians in Ionninas as well

"Racist and Fascist Republic of Turkey"

Isn't Greece a country where some of her citizens cannot say they are originally TURKISH or ALBANIAN
or doing their best for not building a single mosque for 20 years in Athens where not less than 10000 muslims live.
if drinking frappe shows the level of your democracy, so be it. I still prefer latte

Here one of the party in the parliament are clapping the PKK acts(you know bombing Istanbul, diyarbakır, killing civilians), they are defending them while even killing our soldiers and you are calling my country FASCIST. It is not acceptable in any democratical country (if there is one really, let's say Iceland)

I liked this post

Seriously i did, and I'll take it as a Pot Kettle Black

But for argument's sake, Western Thrace keeps get mentioned but it's not the best parallel with your South-East. There have always been Turkish language schools paid by the Greek state. And by courtesy of the Turkish state most houses have satellite dishes for the la-*test*-('") Turkish variety show and soapies. So what bothers you exactly? That "Turkish" has not got any official sanction. Well, firstly the Turks aren't the only Muslims in Western Thrace. And secondly, does "Kurd" and "Kurdish" have any official status in Turkey? So there's no comparison there.

Re the Albanians and Ioanina, well, at least you didn't use the example of Fyrom and her irredentist claims. But whatever you've been told, you've been misled. There are no Albanians in Epirus. The only Albanians in Greece are the immigrants.

Re the mosque, yeah, it's a bit overdue. But Greece doesn't seem to keen to accommodate its migrants anyway. So tell me anyway, why does Turkey refuse to recognise the Patriarch as "Ecumenical", and why only a Turkish-born citizen is allowed to be Patriarch. I hope it's not because of some policy to eventually rid yourselves of the Patriarch. And what about the Theological School of Halki, why is it closed exactly?

Re frappe, I'm actually a latte man myself, but trust me- when you get Greece and Summer then frappes are something you can never get enough of.

Re the Kurds, I will say this. Now that you have a full democracy (which I get the impression does irk some of your namesakes ) the Kurdish representative party, the Democratic Party I think it's called, can't even make the 10% parliamentary threshold, which does tell a lot. Use this your bloody advantage ffs!

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

Optimation, why are you always argumentative just to be argumentative?

Do you really need to respond to this Kemalist's bs and accusations in a thread where a great portion of the Turkish members cheered the destruction of an Armenian cafe in Brussels?

Anyway if you want to compare the extremism of the "Turkish Union of Xanthi"(Greece) supported by Turkish consulates in the region with what minorities in Turkey actually face there is no comparison. Even as a minority group, Turks outside Turkey, have no trouble being vocal, aggressive and threatening.

Here is an example:

Those comments were from a meeting of the Turkish Union of Xanthi which was given a translation with Greek subtitles and originally released by the newspaper Proto Thema and is available here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYOIFIl6tqM

Now the Kemalist state propaganda against Greece makes alot of claims, like Turks cannot organize in Greece with the name Turks or Turkish. Not only is there a Turkish Union of Xanthi in Greece which has meetings, which disproves this thesis, but they are openly spouting hate speech and vitrol and making incitements to threaten those that vote for giaours/infidels, and yet Super Leftist Greece does nothing.

Imagine from the behavior on this forum, and in the video above from a political organization of Turkish alleged innocent lamb minority in Greek Thrace, what minorities in Turkey face.

@Nikos.

So basically, what you're saying is: Let's just ignore the fact that 2/3rds of Turks vote for Greek candidates when there is a Turkish candidate present as well, but bitch about some idiot's ramblings over this. Very Nikephoros of you to sidestep an important statistic, and generalize some extremist's comments on everybody else. By now everybody knows what to expect from the Nikos brand name, so there's no surprise here.


@Opti.

Migrants? Aren't they Greek citizens?


@ Everyone else:

Can somebody tell me why the hell Kurds in Turkey and Turks in Greece always have to be discussed and understood together in this forum? Does the situation of the former justify the problems of the latter (or vice-versa)? Does the treatment of Kurds justify the situation of Thracian Turks as long as "it's not as bad"? Or, are we going to feel better about how our state has been treating our Kurds if we think the attitude of the Greek state towards its own minorities is somewhat similar? What the hell?

If you lived in Turkey, I would hunt you down and Circumsize your unclean penis.

Great portion? Can you count?

Let's re-cant:

Tries to challenge the credibility because dogs(or Armenians to non chauvinist Turks) allegedly published the news. Christians have been insulted as "dogs" from muslim Turks for Centuries.

That comment has nothing to do with the thread and makes no sense. Then kvk1 gives it a +1. But from their attitude since they want to oust all Kurds and "their revenge", I can imagine their attitude to ultra-fascist Turks or "idealists" (as they are called in your homeland), destroying an Armenian cafe and beating up a reporter covering the events.

Now the two real cheerleaders:

Or maybe we can take the que from the German/Greek with his leftist logic

As if I ever want to go to Germany in my life, specifically Cologne, and meet Nazi friends there which I do not have. He continually in that thread accused me of be-friending Nazis, supporting Nazis who killed many Greeks in WWII, etc. So he compares how he thinks Turks would treat me if I visited Cologne, to how to his ad-hominen of "Nazi friends" and how they would receive me.

Because moving away from the notorious leftist logic I will repeat what I said which prompted him to present a (leftist) topia of a Cologne, where Turks and Greeks drink tea and smile counterpoised to a distopia; me getting beat up by Nazi friends in Cologne(who do not exist other than as an ad-hominen in Mavrogenides's mind.):

Now with what I said in that comment:

I do not know how much support or lack of support the Turkish Union of Xanthi has, and no one in Greece will ever know, because no one cares to. This union is not in Turkey, it is in Greece. If they were in Turkey they would have the support of much the media, military, political establishment and popular opinion with such "idealist" and "patriotic" ideas. In Greece the super leftist country just tries to ignore this news. Most Greeks only learn if they see the youtube video because only smaller newspapers will ever cover such news and hurt the chances of carefully placed veil over Turkey(created epsecially by the Greek left) falls down too hard. Personally I only found about that Turkish Union of Xanthi meeting and hate speech, till the fascist Kemalist forumers of WAFF, made a thread about the great Turkish patriots in thrace.

Athens to appeal ECHR ruling in favor of Turkish minority
Dora Bakoyannis
Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis stated at a press conference that Greece would appeal an April ruling of the European Court of Human Rights that convicted it as a result of two lawsuits filed by members of the Turkish minority in Greece upon the closure of their Turkish associations in Western Thrace by Greek courts.

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In response to questions on the issue, Bakoyannis said the decision to appeal the ruling had been made as a result of a careful scrutiny of the case and stressed that there was nothing more to discuss on the issue at this stage.

Defending that the attitude of Athens toward minorities as an EU member was in harmony with European principles and values, Bakoyannis said Turkey should devise its policies toward its minorities in line with European values as an EU-member candidate country, since the attitudes toward minorities are an important part of the membership stipulations to be complied with.

European court rulings

Hülya Emin and six of her friends appealed to the European court in 2005 upon the closure of the Turkish Women's Culture Association, which they founded in March 2001. In addition, Galip Galip and seven of his friends also appealed to the European court in 2005 after their two associations -- the İskeçe (Xanthi) Turkish Union and the University Graduates Association of the Western Thracian Turkish Minority -- were shut down in the Gümülcine (Komotini) region.

The European court ruled in these lawsuits that Greece had violated the European Convention on Human Rights' Article 11, which regulates the right to organize. While not deeming it necessary to fine Greece in connection with Emin and her friends' lawsuit, the European court did sentence Greece to pay Galip and his friends 8,000 euros in resulting damages. The European court also emphasized that Greece had violated Article 6 of the convention on the right to a fair trial by unnecessarily extending the duration of the trial.

In its legal reasoning the Strasbourg-based court stated that the work of associations to promote their own ethnic cultures on no condition constitutes a threat to a democratic society, that minorities from different cultures are a reality of history and that they should be greeted and protected with the tolerance of a democratic society in compliance with international rules of law.

Greek courts that had issued the rulings had based their rulings on the associations' defining themselves as a "Turkish minority" instead of a "Muslim minority."



19 June 2008, Thursday
TODAY'S ZAMAN WITH WIRES ATHENS

I am pretty sure legal action for incitement and hate speech can taken against the Turkish Union of Xanthi. They have a speech video-tapped in Turkish by the Proto Thema newspaper that can prove this.

Probably alot of those organizations listed by Turkkan in his copy and paste job, are directed by Ankara, as even outside of turkey, a shocking portion of "dispora" activity is made in Turkey and controlled by Turkish embassies and consulates everywhere.

I think it's pretty clear they're (kvk & kaya) both talking about the PKK, not the Kurds at large.

I'd like to give some data to anyone who might land on this page. The likes of Dayi, Barbaros, and AlperNYC, or anyone who'd boast about the greywolves, or have a barking wolf in their signature, makes approximately about 9% (safe minumum) to 15% (safe maximum) of Turkish society. You are not doing yourself any favors, or to the Turks your government is responsible for by spamming their posts here over and over again.

And I say spamming, correctly, since this is the 11th time you're quoting the same posts. It's not even trolling anymore.

I also noticed that you have NEVER, at any point, voiced an opinion other than one that accuses Turks or Greek leftists. So, in that regard, I'd like to get you started on that:

My question to you is: if they're "not innocent" (whatever the hell this means), what exactly is their crime, and what is the punishment you yourself see fit for them?

If you don't want to answer specific questions, then just tell us your favored policies by which the Greek government should approach the Turkish minority.

So Grey Wolves are just 9-15% percent everyone should feel so comfortable. It is not like other powerful political and military actors in Turkey are not above farming out services to them. Such a small number, but such a big return value for the Turkish regime.

A Greek commentator on the Turkish political specturm:

Some 12 years ago on the Green Line in Cyprus Grey Wolves kill a Greek Cypriot? Then his brother was killed outright by the Turkish Cypriot security forces for trying to climb the Turkish flag. Then what did the Turkish Primte Minister of the time say:

Was she just a Grey Wolf fanatic, or a representative of the realities of the Turkish political spectrum directed in its very foundations from the extremist nationalism of the official ideology? How come no one will ever be tried for any of those murders, or how come still Turkey does not reveal what happened to Cypriot missing persons?

Meanwhile, Turkey promotes this face to tourists:


And the Greek left tend to promote the same image of Turkey internally in Greece. Directed by Marxist precepts every worker is a brother, together they form one nation, under one global market.

You are just dodging the question I asked you. Here, again:

I also noticed that you have NEVER, at any point, voiced an opinion other than one that accuses Turks or Greek leftists. So, in that regard, I'd like to get you started on that:

My question to you is: if they're "not innocent" (whatever the hell this means), what exactly is their crime, and what is the punishment you yourself see fit for them?

If you don't want to answer specific questions, then just tell us your favored policies by which the Greek government should approach the Turkish minority.

Yeah, I do. And also for the sake of arguing, I'll pull you up for mentioning it.

That's right, I want to respond to them. Maybe I like the attention (or the lack of it of late) or maybe I'm just being a troll for the sake of being a troll. But hey, away from this forum and my real world, I'm perhaps one of few hard-arse Greeks that can call upon Turks to help me out if I suddenly find myself in a spot of bother.

Re Turks and the kurdos and Armenians, well, re the skop, if a civil war breaks out between them and the Albos, I'll probably smile like this

Pot Kettle Black

The human race is just a vicious cycle.

Migrants have become a real issue in Greece of late. It seems to be near impossible for them to obtain Greek citizenship. But it's not exclusive to Greece. I think it's the same in Germany, re second and third generation Turkish migrants, for example, aren't entitled to receive the Jerry papers. Maybe by making citizenship easier to get may help integration, like in Australia and the US. But yet again, it really hasn't worked that well in France or the UK.

This is my take on things: first needs to come multiculturalism, then comes integration followed by assimilation. But the first needs to be achieved, which is something difficult for nation-states to grasp.