Also one key reason for the Empires demise was its fragmentation.

When shit started to hit the fan the Greek Empire did not stand alone.
It had two sister empires, one of Trepizond and one of Epirus.

Both cunts refused to send help to Constantinople.

Fall of Constantinople was inevitable du to thay conjuncture, every Greek accepts it i guess. But i think Greeks lost Polis not in 1453 but after 1955 pogroms and that racist law in 1964. Under Ottoman rule, Orthodox church was the second powerful authority after Palace and Greeks have always been privileged subjects of Ottoman Empire. Moreover IMHO Asia-minor disaster and population exchange has more destructive effects on Greek psyche than loss of Constantinople.

Above all, current problems between Greeks and Turks are generally based on Cyprus and Aegean conflicts.

At that time there was an internal friction in Byzantium. The leadership of the time (religious and political) new that the days of Byzantium were numbered. The choice was about how to handle this. the church made a preference towards the ottomans. the emperor towards the Latins.

the priests were afraid that with the unification of the churches there was going to be a new organized faith that would not be possible to be broken afterwards and so the pope would end up inevitably being in control irriversably. With the ottomans being muslim there were never going to be a mix of the political structure and so the orthodox church (not faith) would survive in tack even smaller and weaker.

The emperor on the other side wanted to preserve the hellenic language and heritage, as well as he saw an opportunity to separate the conclusively the political and the religious authorities and powers. Had he succeeded the renaissance would have started there at that time and not later on in italy when the byzantine exiles started teaching the ancient philosophy there.

The emperor had an almost impossible task. the orthodox church had interest against, the ottomans had interests against, the pope had interests against (the seperation of political and religious powers was going to give a very bad example to the catholic people)

The people that had the same interests as the emperor were the florence and venicial political leaders, that did not evaluate the situation correctly.

because the allowed byzantium to fall the ottomans accuired the naval resources of the byzantines (in people technology and infrastructure) and created a fleet that took the comerce away from those two republics and so their demise began.

well said...

most Greeks, other than deluded right wingers who still hold on to deluded dreams of the megali idea....couldnt give a toss about Istanbul...it was a great city that was lost due to the tides of history......its in the past..

Greeks still feel the asia minor catastrophe....still feel the 1955 pogroms and Cyprus issue...after all it can only be so there still so fresh in the collective conscious....

I believe if we solve the Aegean and Cyprus issues we can live in peace...if we can keep the right wing assholes at bay...

Yes but the quetion is how we do this. As long as there doesn't seem to be a solution in the horizon, the "right wing bastards" on both sides will have all the credibility in the world.

Fuck Constantinople. I dont give a flying fuck. Constantinople was a Roman center of authority. It was sluggish, lacked innovation, and was opposite to whatever Greece and its people stood for. Freedom, innovation, knowledge and of course super heavy infantry .

It was an empire rotten to the core.

For me Greece is the ancient part and the modern part. These are only the periods where Greek people rule themselves and answer only to themselves.

You can keep your Istanbul. We've got mighty Athens.

calm down tubby..

im glad you have come to accept the REALITY that you will never get the city back.

So please carry on slagging it off.. makes you look like a bitter little child.

George is right. No-one cares about your damn City, man. Well, except those nationalistic pricks who are so miserable in their RL that believe that an alternative course of things would made their petty lifes better. The same apllies for the turkish nationalists too.

uhuh Los. Nobody is better than this baby.

Yes back in the old days we wanted Istanbul. Because it was better than the city we had. But times change. And we got alot better. Sorry baby, now Athens rulez!

There is nothing you have we could possibly want.

Ya right, we are really jealous of Beirut, oops sorry i meant Athens :-






Istanbul :-












Now Fuck OFF.

LosM wins the argument according to the pics he posted. Istanbul is a gorgeous city indeed. Lets see some nicer pics of Athens, George.

Modern Constantinople does look very nice in those pics.

@Los M.

I didnt tell you that you are jeleous. All I am saying is that I am very pleased with what I already have. I am seeking no substitute.

Very convenient way to put it though. Get some nice pics of Istanbul and then throw the worst athens pics. Really smart.

With all due respect I can post some parts of Istanbul that makes Gaza look like Champs-Élysées.

Vice versa w/ Athens so these pictures don't mean jack shit.

Very true.

I'm biased, but I pick...neither. Beirut actually bests both, LOS MAGANDOS.