ok i will also refer to them as northern mac from now on..hope it catches on

"northern mac"?

Sounds like a hamburger.

I'll have one northern mac and two fillet of Albania,some turkey nuggets dipped in greece.

MMMM what a feast

Found this article ,make what you will of it



Saturday, June 06, 2009 Home About Us GP Editors Get Published Newsletter Contact Us




Macedonians in Denial about the Name Issue Dispute with Greece

Sam Vaknin, Ph.D. - 6/5/2009

Faced with an unprecedented choice between their identity and their future, Macedonians resort to a classic psychological defense mechanism: denial. Greece demands that the Republic of Macedonia change its name, or else forget about its Euro-Atlantic aspirations: NATO membership and EU accession. Macedonians react with horror and revulsion to such truly unprecedented bullying. Unable to face reality, they collectively retreat to fantasy.

FANTASY NUMBER 1: Macedonia will not be asked to change its Constitutional name

Macedonian intellectuals and politicians like to pretend (and usually succeed in convincing themselves) that Greece will demand only the change of Macedonia's name in international settings, bilateral relations, and multilateral organizations.

REALITY: Macedonia will be required to change its constitutional name.

FANTASY NUMBER 2: Macedonia is actually negotiating with Greece

REALITY: Greece is negotiating this issue with the United States and, to a lesser extent, with certain members of the European Union. Macedonia is not a party to the negotiations and is completely irrelevant in this context. It will be presented with a "take it or leave it" solution. If it doesn't take it, it will pay a heavy price, both internally (as its restive minorities rebel) and externally (as it is further excluded from the mainstream of the international community).

Thus, Macedonia was utterly shocked by the Greek veto that prevented its accession to the alliance in the NATO Bucharest Summit in April 2008. But this move was coordinated well in advance with both the USA and the EU (they were not happy about it, but they were fully informed and apprised of the Greek decision). They simply did not bother to keep Macedonia in the picture.

On March 30, 2008 (days before the NATO summit took place), I published this text in the Long Beach Chronicle:

"High-placed NATO officials informed the Chronicle a few weeks ago that, if the negotiations between Macedonia and Greece regarding what has come to be known as "the name issue" fail, NATO will invite Macedonia to join the alliance, effective June 30, 2009, and conditioned upon a resolution of its bilateral bone of contention with its much larger neighbor by said date."

FANTASY NUMBER 3: America and many European countries are friends of Macedonia and regard Greek behavior and demands as atrocious.

REALITY: While the United States and the majority of the member-countries of the European Union indeed regard Greek conduct as inexcusable and disruptive, they will all, without exception, side with Greece against Macedonia. This is because Greece is richer, a key member of NATO's ever-more-crucial southern plank, and an important trading partner of many countries. Macedonia, by comparison, is of very limited importance. Hence, it has no leverage.

Macedonia's only hope is to influence American decision-makers through international public opinion; to act against the Greek position in a variety of multilateral and judicial institutions; and to cooperate with core constituencies in the United States in order to change the minds of legislators and bring them to its side.

FANTASY NUMBER 4: Even if there is a referendum in Macedonia on a proposed solution, the West will make sure that it succeeds

REALITY: Nikola Gruevski and his government will not publicly support any solution that they (secretly) find unacceptable. At best, Gruevski will remain neutral and leave it to the people to decide. Gruevski will not collaborate with the International Community in perpetrating what he regards as the coerced abrogation of Macedonian's natural rights.

FANTASY NUMBER 5: The name issue is very important to the ruling coalition.

REALITY: The name issue is a distraction. Gruevski's main priorities are economic growth and prosperity and nation-building, based on history, both modern and ancient. The name issue is not as important to him as it is to many of his detractors. He is willing to wait out the storm, even if it means later NATO and EU accession. He does regard the name issue as a failure and does take it personally. But he will not let his emotions affect his policies.

FANTASY NUMBER 6: Gruevski is using the name issue to gain political points

REALITY: Gruevski feels very deeply and authentically about this issue. As a person, he reacts badly to injustice and pressure. He hates being blackmailed. He becomes very stubborn when subjected to arm-twisting. On the other hand, it is true that he is overly-sensitive to his rating and popularity and is, indeed, doing everything he can to evade the name issue and put it on the back-burner because he believes that the problem cannot be solved without utterly unacceptable Macedonian concessions. He is a pragmatist, so he concentrates on the here and now and on what can be achieved in the sphere of the economy.

Sam Vaknin ( http://samvak.tripod.com ) is the author of Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited and After the Rain - How the West Lost the East. He served as a columnist for Global Politician, Central Europe Review, PopMatters, Bellaonline, and eBookWeb, a United Press International (UPI) Senior Business Correspondent, and the editor of mental health and Central East Europe categories in The Open Directory and Suite101.

Visit Sam's Web site at http://samvak.tripod.com You can download 22 of his free ebooks in our bookstore

Went to this dudes web site...strange place indeed

LOL.I agree.

Ivanov Supports Name Referendum

Skopje | 08 June 2009 |

Macedonian President Georgi Ivanov gave his backing to a referendum on Macedonia's name dispute with Greece, saying that the people of Macedonia should have a say in any compromise with Athens.

"The people should not feel deprived of their rights and personality, something which every person living on this planet has, a right to self-determination and self-identification," Ivanov told local media in Skopje.

Last Sunday, Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski also stressed that any compromise between Skopje and Athens would have to be approved via a referendum. His party, the centre-right VMRO DPMNE, has previously embedded this in its 2008 election program.

Last year, Athens blocked Skopje’s NATO accession over the row. Greece argues that Macedonia’s formal name, the same name of Greece's northern province, implies Skopje’s territorial claims over it.

Some analysts say that a referendum on any possible compromise name that would be reached through UN-brokered talks could mean a blockade of the whole process since the majority of Macedonian’s are very likely to refuse it.

Ivanov vowed to find a “reasonable compromise” between the two states that would not interfere with Macedonian identity or offend Macedonian sensibilities.

US diplomat Matthew Nimetz, the UN mediator in the talks, will soon visit the region, Ivanov said.

The talks should intensify in the aftermath of European Parliament elections, which closed on Sunday.

Media speculate that the United States, which is perceived as a major player in the talks, would like to see the issue closed by the end of the year. This would ensure Macedonia's membership in NATO next year and clear the path for EU accession.

(Reporting by Sinisa-Jakov Marusic)

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It still says "Macedonia" though ! You Greks, sure are Funny Guys

I laugh at your great humour !!

It`s called compromise: no clear winners or losers.

Nimetz to meet negotiators in Geneva on June 22

Thursday June 11, 2009

NAME TALKS

Matthew Nimetz, the United Nations mediator for the name dispute between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), is to meet with the negotiators from both sides in Geneva on June 22, sources said yesterday. Nimetz is expected to ask ambassadors Adamantios Vassilakis and Zoran Jolevski for their respective government’s current stance in a bid to get the stalled negotiation process back on track. The envoy is subsequently due to visit Skopje and Athens on July 6 and 8, respectively. It is thought that Nimetz will try to continue talks on the basis of his latest proposal for the name Republic of Northern Macedonia.

Link

ok so there is north macedonia and...wait there must be south macedonia too

where is it damn it? slavomacedonia was the best , but again thanks to brilliant minds back in the 90's we rejected that proposal , NIKE DO YOU HEAR ME DEAR?

If it goes to referendum in FYROM, the Skopjians would probably reject "Republic of Northern Macedonia" which means that they would be even more isolated and the Albanians would run out of patience which means more problems for FYROM and the current nationalists that runs the country.

But I agree, Slavo Macedonia would had been more favourable to Greece.

Macedonia: Ruling Party Lobbies for Name Compromise

Skopje | 11 June 2009

Macedonia’s ruling VMRO DPMNE party is attempting to persuade its hard core members to agree to a compromise with Greece regarding the country’s disputed name, local media cited unnamed party sources as saying on Thursday.

The centre-right party has not yet commented on the media claims.

An unnamed party source allegedly told the local Vreme daily that VMRO DPMNE activists had already been given instructions from the leadership to start laying the groundwork for the acceptance of a compromise over the name dispute among its members.

The party, which won much of its unmatched support in the last March election portraying itself as a hard-core defender of the country's constitutional name, Macedonia, is now being forced to shift its policy due to pressure from the west, which is uring a swift solution to the dispute with Greece, the source was quoted as saying.

The source reporteldy said it would be particularly difficult to persuade people to be more open towards compromise and that round tables with party intellectuals would be staged over the summer in an attempt to sway opinion on the sensitive issue.

Macedonia and Greece are engulfed in a long-running dispute over the use of Macedonia’s formal name, which Greece perceives as a threat to its territorial integrity. Athens argues that the name of Macedonia, the same name of Greece's northern province, implies Skopje’s territorial claims towards it.

Last year, the row intensified after Greece blocked Macedonia’s NATO, demanding the name be changed. The west, seen as catalyst in the UN-sponsored talks, has urged for a swift solution.

Media speculate that the UN talks are due to resume later this month. The last compromise proposal that was on the table, according to media reports, were several variations on the name "Northern Macedonia".

Media say that Skopje will seek firm guarantees for preserving the Macedonian identity should any compromise take place.

(Reporting by Sinisa-Jakov Marusic)

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Greece to allow FYROM flight to land for Corfu talks

Posted: June 19, 2009 at 07:31 AM EST (12:31 PM GMT)

Greece, which normally bans flights from the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) from landing in the country, has decided to make an exception to the rule so that a delegation from Skopje can take part in a meeting of Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) foreign ministers due to take place on Corfu June 27-28.

The decision was criticized by PASOK, which said that it “undermined” Greece’s position in the ongoing name talks with FYROM. Government sources said that if the FYROM diplomats had been banned, Skopje could have claimed it was being barred from the meeting by Greece.

Source: Kathimerini

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NAME TALKS

Meeting in Geneva today

Monday June 22, 2009

The United Nations mediator in the name dispute between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) is to meet with representatives from both countries in Geneva today for a new round of talks aimed at reaching a consensus on an official name for the small Balkan state. Matthew Nimetz is scheduled to visit Skopje on July 6 and then Athens for follow-up talks with government officials from both sides.

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