Racism

our fellow greeks in the forum need also to understand that kemal found and run the country as he thought it was the best...now since then there is a period of 70 years or so that many have changed and for sure kemal isnt necessarily responsible for the bad or the good...

so bashing kemal for what the post kemal administrations do is like bashing venizelos for the 1967 junta...hope you get the meaning.

On the other hand my fellow turkish forumers its your right to feel insulted if a greek is bashing kemal , but it is their damn privilege to do so and you cant stop them. you cant call someone fascist because he isnulted kemal , fascism is an ideology not the dissaproval of a person for which someone dislikes him. Also there is the ultimate punishment of ignorance... greekturkish/tiphat.gif

I remember back then at the university in england we used to call pakistanis "pakis" , scottish "scots", people from newcastle "geordies" and liverpoolians "scousers"...dont remember anyone being offended , rather we laughed at each others face .

i wouldnt care and i DONT care if you call me grik , grek, gayrek, giaour, you name it , there are people and people out there and i am used to both lukum and shit. Einstein said "i am sure that the world has a frontier , but human stupiditness hasnt" greekturkish/bluebiggrin.gif

In Turkish language people's names start with big letter.

QUOTE (Red @ January 30, 2008 05:37 pm)

In Turkish language people's names start with big letter.

ahem sorry i'll fix it

Kemal, and Venizelos

QUOTE (Red @ January 30, 2008 08:37 pm)

In Turkish language people's names start with big letter.

Why don't you sue him? greekturkish/ladida.gif

It was about a basic spelling rule. But next time I will take your advice into consideration.

QUOTE (domestos @ January 27, 2008 03:03 am)

Zeus, biggest lies are knitted with true knots. Picking particular words from a whole text and pasting totally off-topic quotes is not discussing to find or show the truth. When a turk says "A", guy first says "you've seen, he said A". Then the quote showes up...

I am not ignorant like some others you deal with here daily. Los Maganados starts to make insinuations that I am a waiter, harking to racist Turkish nationalist stereotypes of other peoples being servants of Turks. Then a while later in conjunction with the onslaught of highly partisan Greek leftists attacking me, nearly half the Turkish posters repeat the invented stereotypes of Maganados, including yourself.

QUOTE

The ancient Turks were, according to Gokalp, distinguished by a multitude of excellent qualities: open-handed hospitatily, modesty, faithfulness, courage, uprightness and so forth. Especially praiseworthy was their attitude to the peoples subdued by them. Strong as their love was for their own people, remarks Gokalp with astonishing naivete, they did not oppress other nations. Their God was a god, of peace and the whole object of their rulers was to establish a regime of peace. Devoid of all imperalistic ambitions, the great Turkish conquerors in ancient times only sought to unite other Turkish tribes only.

Heyd, Uriel. Foundations of Turkish Nationalism: The Life andTeachings of Ziya Gökalp. (Luzac & Company Ltd., 1950) pp. 113.

QUOTE (David Davidian)

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1131/..._education.html
"Hukmetme istegi aslinda bir ic-gududur. Her insanda suur-alti bir kuvvet olarak yasar. Bu ic-gudu ayni zamanda baskalarini somurmek icin bir vasitadir. Bazi milletlerin bu yolla istsmarciliga yonelmesi Turklerde mevcut olan "bey gururun"nun onlarda eksik olmasindandir. Beylik gururu, sadece ogunme vesilesi olan basit bir psikoloji degildir. Asli ozelligi, karsilik beklemeden koruyucu olmasidir. Bunun temeli de, hukum altina alinmis insanlari sevmektir." [2]

...in translation:

"The want to dominate is an instinct. It exists in a human as an unconscious force. This instinct at the same time is a means to exploit. The inclination of some nations to exploit in this manner is because they lack "pride of prince (bey)" that exists among the Turks. The "pride of prince" is not only a simple psychological state for an opportunity to brag. Its main characteristic is protecting (those under one's domination) without expecting anything in return. The foundation of this is loving the people under one's domination."

[2] _Tarih Lise I, Ibrahim Kafesoglu, Altan Deliorman, 1977 Ikinci Basilis,
Milli Egitim Bakanligi, page 238

How is that for nitpicking? Turkish racist nationalist author Gokalp writes that Turks are born to dominate, and their domination is benevolent, and Turkish high school textbooks have said the same...

QUOTE (akavak @ January 22, 2008 03:07 am)

1) You think Grik offensive? Ok. I've never used it before (I don't think) but I'll cease its use. I have no problem with compromise. I can't control what other people do but I became a member of this board for mutual, respectful dialog and the pursuit of friendship.

QUOTE

2) I didn't know that you guys had a little pact not to use Ataturk because it could be a sensitive issue. I'm sorry but whoever made you do agree that and whoever DID agree to that are fools. I respect the man and hold him as one of the great historical figures of our time; however it's foolish to exclude him, or any person/subject matter out of all conversations because a few keyboard warriors think it's offensive. Everybody is allowed to have their opinions and share them even if it ruffles someone's feathers. If they're so damn offended they can debate you on why they think your opinion is wrong or unfair.

Firstly, I find it hard to be believe. For you Turks, Ataturk comes before God and family. FFS, Red even finds it offensive "ataturk", And Turks in the past who have challenged Ataturk's personality cult have found themsleves marginalized and chased out of here.

And as for the agreement, it had more to do with something like this:

Click here: warning can be offensive to some

QUOTE (mickey @ January 29, 2008 07:35 pm)

You guys obviously know Los a lot better than me,so i'm taking a punt here,but i wouldnt mind betting that a lot of Los 's comments are "tongue in cheek" and maybe his references to "Grik" are a form of endearment.At least thats how i take them

Do you think I made up what I posted above

QUOTE

And If you cant pick up on the sly put downs by the likes of Opti, Mythos, George, then you must be blind....

No SK.. you are not a Grik.. you are a nice guy.. that sometimes thinks he is above the most base human emotions.. which I know you are not.. no one is.

For the Record the "Griks" on here are :-

Zeus, Opti, Mythos, George, Duke,

http://greekturkish.18.forumer.com/index.p...indpost&p=52256

QUOTE (LOS MAGANDOS @ January 29, 2008 10:03 pm)

Thank you Mickey.. I personally have nothing but love for all my Greek brothers.

but if the term is offensive I can call you all "Stavros" ?? would that be better ??

lossy, please stop this shit about "brothers". You've never said anything constructive towards the Greeks or Greece. Any thread positive to Greece or on our history, you jump in with: Vee Griks invent viagra. Then you use me and Zeus, for example, as an excuse to justify your rants.

QUOTE (optimaton @ February 01, 2008 03:45 pm)

And as for the agreement, it had more to do with something like this:

Click here: warning can be offensive to some

Watch out yourself Opti. Red is probably on a plane and listening "bir gece ansızın gelebiliriz" on her ipod while flyin to Melbourne. greekturkish/shoottmfnw3.gif

QUOTE (optimaton @ February 01, 2008 02:45 pm)

Mate, I can give as good as I get. As I clearly stated it's how that word is obviously used as an excuse/opportunity to slag off at the Greeks. I'm not asking no one to not use this word. I haven't gone down to lossy's level and used the same excuse to refer to Turks as turkeys or gayturks or mongols. My point has got more to do with should we encourage childish name calling. It kind of lowers the standards of the forum.

Firstly, I find it hard to be believe. For you Turks, Ataturk comes before God and family. FFS, Red even finds it offensive "ataturk", And Turks in the past who have challenged Ataturk's personality cult have found themsleves marginalized and chased out of here.

And as for the agreement, it had more to do with something like this:

Click here: warning can be offensive to some

Offensive? No not,I corrected him not in a serious way.

Here all I can say is (just because you mentioned my name) if you want to be respected, this is what you do: You show respect to us as well. I'm not talking about you here,I'm talking about general stuf. I show respect to Greece,did you ever see me attacking to your country, talking bad about your religion,your people,Greek Cypriots? did you ever see me disrespecting you, or someone important for your people? One Greek forumer called him (Atatürk) "animal",I would never use this language for anyone that important for Greeks. I'm out of all these discussions.

Anyway I'm not interested in anymore,as I said before this forum changed my opinions a lot.

Take care.

How has it changed you red?

QUOTE ("Heyd and Deedes")

From the Foreward by Wyndham Deedes

"As to the value of his [Gokalp's] ideas, they are not so difficult to appraise -- for they can be traced in many of the institutions of his country, in the principles embodied in the Six Arrows [of Ataturk], and they are reflected in the present-day spirit of his people." [1]

From the Preface by Uriel Heyd:
" ... what is the relation between the opinions of the Young Turks and the official ideology of the present day Turkish Republic(Kemalism)."

[1] Heyd, Uriel. Foundations of Turkish Nationalism: The Life and Teachings of Ziya Gökalp. (Luzac & Company Ltd., 1950) pp. viii.
[2] Ibid. pp. xi.

When Turks are demanding for people to respect Kemal they are asking in effect to worship the Turkish state and its official ideology. When Greek leaders visit Turkey and pose infront of the obligatory Ataturk portraits they legitimatize the official Turkish ideology that is the real source of Greek-Turkish problems.

Do not believe their(the Turks) lies. Their words are lies carefully calculated to hide the truth which they have no interest in.

QUOTE (Nikephoros @ February 05, 2008 12:03 am)

You're a sad man.

To make a blanket statement like all Turks lie/don't believe any Turks...I can't imagine the magnitude of hatred and prejudice flowing through your waste of a brain.

Dumb fuck.