Right, there are two regular Kurdish posters here, and a range of Turkish views, from those who see Kurds as brothers, those who see them as enemies, those who want them to create a state and those who would rather die than give an inch of land.

In this thread, I want people to be straight. To the Kurdish posters, do you see the creation of a sovereign Kurdish state as ever actually taking land from Turkey. If you do, in what circumstances will that occur? How does Turkey agree to just hand out land that it possess and calls its homeland?

Secondly, how much of the land that is situated in Turkey, would you realistically say should be part of a Kurdistan, a map would be preferable. Not historical maps, present day maps with justifications based on demographics.

Turks, who of you would be willing to give land away to the Kurds (if any?), those(and I suspect this is the majority) who will not give land away, how do you propose the future pans out? How do you end the status quo, what needs to be done?

Kurdish posters, would you accept a more autonomous status that remains a part of Turkey.

Guys, keep this civil. Mention of insects, or any other insult or racist comment will mean that your opinion is deleted and your posting rights suspended. Greeks jumping in for hit and run trolls also be warned.

Thanks

To be honnest I do not hate Kurds, but for the pkk and the people who approves the pkk : yes i hate them.

I know that Dirii and Kurdistani aren't Pkk's partizan, i concider them like my bros

We are Turks and it's normal that we don't want a Kurdistan and vice versa for the Kurds: They want a free Kurdistan, i can understand them, sometimes i asked to myself "what will be my reaction if i was Kurd? "


When you or your parents were born in Turkey, you are Turk but you can't forget your origins, that's normal.

I personally beleive that turkey should first chance it gets carry out a limited incursion into northern iraq, and using its airforce strike PKK and the kurdish regional goverments headquarters, but not a full scale invasion or anything like that. The aim being simply to make Barzani and whoever else is in power at that time to think twice about supporting the PKK which is without a doubt what they are doing now. This whole argument that turkey will loose out economically is quite inconsequential if you consider that the next step after the formation of a kurdish state would be for it to try and expand its borders, that would mean civil war ofcourse and in comparison to what we will loose if we do a limited excursion in the next few months is nothing in comparison to what happens then.

First of all:

1. Who the fuck are you to tell us that you want us to be "straight" especially on a topic that is as idiotic as talking about the annexation of Greek lands to Macadonia?

2. You are saying that we can't get "racist" yet the root cause of the entire conflict and the point of your question is based on Race. You want us to talk about a RACE topic without talking about RACE.

3. This topic is a repeat of the same thing I had posted before. There I posed a question to the KURDS of the forum asking them what they thought the solution was. The answer, like all things in life, is determined by strength. That is, until the day comes when Kurdos can field an army to take us on, they are all our lands.

End of Story.

Go flex your managerial powers on your peons wise guy.

opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one.

First off - I wanna thank you for your sincere interest in this issue, SK...

I will now adresse the questions which you have asked Kurds to answer:

Eventually, yes... Even the Turks know that. That's why they're worried about Iraqi Kurdistan going independent...

That is up to the Turkish people and the Turkish government...

I will not go into detail here, (yet), because it would be pure speculation...

Through international pressure and through further education of it's population... Eventually... Even if it wouldn't want to - eventually - it would be forced to...

Ataturk's reply to a reporters question about the Kurds in 1922:

Basically saying: If you drew a border - in the name of the Kurds - you'd have to draw a line from Erzurum to Erzincan to Sivas and to Harput...

But as we know the assimilation policies of the Turkish government, have been very fatal to Kurdish culture - and thus also to the Kurds as a people and an ethnicity... Ethnocide is a good term to describe what the Turkish government has been doing the last 83 years...

I'm gonna cut the story short and show you a map which should be close to a realistic division. I'm not saying it's realistic - because we wouldn't know - as there are no consensus and no statistics to go by...

But from my personal travels and the information I have read, shared and seen:



The red parts would be the areas which still have a overwhelming Kurdish nationlist sentiments...

The dark blue parts would be the historic Kurdish lands which Ataturk speaks of...

It's not what I want... But what the majority wishes... There should be democratically held referendums... Let the people decide for themselves... Maybe it will turn out they want no autonomy at all... Maybe it will turn out they want out right independence...

And I am positive this result will change from area to area... So the smar-*test*-('") and best thing to do would be to hold a referendum...

In the region I am from, for example, people have a very strong and distinct Kurdish identity... They'd definetly go for full independence... But for example in areas like Urfa - there would be a splitt between the autonomy seekers and independence advocats...

I think the best thing to do would be to hold the referendum and to view the results village by village and borough by borough...

Some will want independence... Some will want autonomy and some will want nothing of the sort at all...

How do you keep a Kurd happy for a hundred years??































Give him one of these:

Ok Turk or not I love Turkey Piyade, if i must flame Kurds to proove you my Turkishness i won't coz i feel me sad when i flamed poeple ...

Plus why are you so angry?
Kurdistan isn't a country, show me a map (true) of Nothern Kurdistan , there isn't .

Plus Kurds want a Kurdistan because there was a country like that before the Turks but if everybody think like that: Turks will re-take the Ottoman countries then, Is it logical? no

The only thing that i try to say is: Turkey exist and the military exist too, there is no way to pick up our country Piyade

@Spartan King

To foresee the future one should look at the history. Kurdish uprisings is nothing new, the PKK is exactly the 30th uprising of the Kurds. So to be honnest nothing to worry about, just one more uprising that is going to end up in Kurdish delusion.

First democratic rights and decentralization, than self determination. I think many of the Kurds are not in favour of an independent Kurdistan.

Dome isn't too far off the mark IMO.

From what I understand the main grievance of the Kurds in Turkey is cultural and language rights and not demands for outright independence.

Back in the 90's in Aust I was watching an interview with a PKK representive visiting on SBS. What I can specifically remember is him stating that realistically the PKK cannot possibly defeat the Turkish army to achieve any independence, so they were fighting more for political and cultural autonomy. And that's the PKK rep.

In defence of both Kurdistani and Diri have never expressed support for either the PKK or seperation from Turkey. Once again for them it's about freedom in cultural expressio/identity. This we can accept as too many Turks do see any cultural concessions to the Kurds as threating Turkey's territorial unity.

Also, PKK numbers only 4,000. Of course there are street riots in Diyabakir. But if the entire Kurdish population were really rabid PKK then you'd get a lot more then 4,000 taking arms. With a majority of Kurds the main urban areas of the SE can seriously become a war zone, meaning with IED or snipers. But it's not.

Best model to look at is at Spain re the Catalans and Basques. Both have their autonomy, though Spanish is the predominat language of the regions even by Catalans and Basques themselves, and many are content of having this rather then any independence. Even Batasunam the party closely linked with ETA, only gets 20% of the vote. But being Spain's two wealthiest regions, neither Catalans or Basques aren't really interested in statehood. As long as they have their political and cultural autonomy they remain content with being a part of Spain.

As I see it as long as the SE remains impoverished and the Kurds are look down upon as second-class citizens, you will have problems.

Yeah

They are smart. They don't want their throats cut.

I am against giving land away. I'vs stated before that I am for developing the SE and that way, by giving people small steps of liberty along with growing infrastructure would end the status quo.

The only things that i hope are:
Everybody will be equal
Everybody will have the same rights

But giving a land: no

What will be the result :
Turks and Kurds will be in the same situation that Israel and Palestine

That's what you want?
I don't think ... who wants to loose her/his friends, family???
Who wants to cry on the tomb of his/her family or friends???

Turkey is a big country and the biggest charm of Turkey is the cultures, every parts of Turkey are wonderfull with its poeple Kurdish, Turkish or others

Artist

Everyone is equal and they do have same rights.

I don't see mass Kurdish discrimination anywhere.

When you were in Turkey, did you see any signs that said No Kurds allowed?