You have no fucking clue. Turkiye for Turks.

It is still difficult for a non Turkic person to gain citizenship - for example - under the regulations that inform the naturalization process in Turkey there is a regaulation that provides that those of Turkish "Soy" in order to gain full naturalisation rights. However, in practice the naturalisation laws are very unclear - and has been open to corruption. For example to Ahuska Turks in Bursa were not given citizenship. Turkoman from Iraq are however...
Of course... One can also gain Turkish citizenship via marrage..

The irony is that Turkey truely in an immigrant nation - with regards to the Balkan people that came...

AKP is planning to reform the law so that non Turkic people can gain citizenship more easily...

Two questions: 1) exactly why weren't they given citizenship, and 2) is this still the case?

just curious.

I am not sure whether the case has been resolved or not - It was still the case in 2003 - maybe they have been granted it now....

They were supposed to be Georgians not Turks...

Define "full naturalisation rights".
Are you talking about financial aid and privileges given to help settle down...?

And please do tell what this has to do with discriminations towards Kurds.

This means the right to stand for election - state pension and aid etc.

As to its effect on Kurds - well given the fact that most Kurds in turkey are full citizens then Its not really a problem - It problem comes with the definaion of the loyal Turkey's citizen - as an ethnic Turk - This is a problem in that i alienates many Kurds from the republic...

But of course - there is no Kurdish issue in Turkey so I am wasting my breath.... Its all just one big happy family and the terrorit ar all working for Soros righ?

yeah they do.

there are rich kurds who live like Sultans

and there are poor kurds who live like other poor turks live.

they are treated equally.

kurdi,
can you tell me whose ethnically Turk? I haven't come across any definition like that and I have been in this country almost 30 years. Maybe I had to because many of my friends and I are not ethnically Turks.

Please clarify it...

and please do not bring the language thingie. It is getting more funny. Why cannot some kurds confess that they want a seperatation?

Ethncity and Nationalism are separate but closely related trends -

Objectively speaking there is no jut thing as 'pure ethnicity' in a biological sense - thus, ethnic Turk (or anything) is sociological - After all - if you as Los, dom or rem - I look more 'Turkish' than anyone.

The point is that if we try to objectively define ethnicity we get no where - However, those people that subjectively define themselves as 'ethnic Turks' which according to a recent servey in Turkey (conducted by one of the national papers - I forget which one -sorry - but I will search if you don't feel that you can trust my word) most of the Turkish population....

Turkish nationalism has many strands - one major strand has been the Volkish ethno-nationalism promoted by elemets within the state that fear that if Turkey were to accept ethnic plurality in anything except the most limited way then it would collapse...


I have never claimed that the situation was that of the evil Turks oppressing the Kurds - I have made that point over and over again - There are many of Turkey's Kurdish tribes support the state and live like Sultans - However, there are legal restrictions on Kurdish cultural express - i.e the expression of teh Kurdish identity - This legal limitation has politicized it...


By the way - are you clim that I want to separate Turkey - Again that is not what I have said - you should read my posts rather than just accusing me of bing a hard core separtist jut because I am not ashamed of my sociological background...

Are you a mind reader?

Those were some pretty disturbing images.

You white kurd...

Are you around here brother? Let's make another nightout. Have you tried the delicious pints of Taps in Asmalımescit?

What meaning am I supposed to extract from this…? Is using excessive dashes the new academic fashion…?

How do the difficulties Ahıska Turks facing, alienate Kurds from the Republic…? If I understood you right, they alienate each other. Kırıtmadan yaz da kolay anlayalım.

Is it OK to feel ethnically Kurd, but not so to feel ethnically Turk…? Separatist Kurds are the ones bringing the ethnicity card to the table many moons ago, why do you turn everything onto Turks…?

You sound like Ahmet Turk, have you listened to his speech in the Parliament yesterday…? That disgraceful prick blatantly admitted that some Kurds do not know Turkish and demanded services like health care in Kurdish. In one hand he admits to Kurds not knowing Turkish, in the other he demands education in Kurdish. Half the Kurds in SE receive totally free health care in private hospitals, but he still asks for more social security. He defends the separatist terrorists, but blames TSK for being separatist. Then you come out and start talking about Ahıska Turks, twist it to the point where it’s the Turkish state’s fault for creating the friction between the insolent Kurds and Turks. Yeah, the State alienated Kurds by not granting immediate citizenship to Ahıskas.

We were able to form a Republic virtually out of nothing by assembling under a single identity, a citizen of that Republic; if anyone doesn’t like this identity they can kindly fuck off. Ataturk said : ‘ne mutlu Türküm diyene’, he didn’t say ‘ne mutlu Türk olana’.

Well, the above has traces of it, unless I misunderstood you.

Really - I have never said that there is a problem with feeling ethnically Turkish - That is peoples right and choice. I don't see where I have said that is a problem. The point is that ethnic Turkish nationalism should not be a basis for the Republic of Turkey. Instead Turkey should embrace a more pluralistic form of nationalism that does not just grudgingly except ethnic diversity but embraces it.


As for who brought up the issue of ethno nationalism - It was actually cadre within the Turkish state and elemets in the military. Under the one party regime all non Turkish 'clubs' and alike we closed - Non Turkish languages were banned and there were policies of Turkification of 'non Turkish' areas - directed mainly against Kurds. The MHP has its roots in parties that developed in the 1950s - long before the development of mass Kurdish nationalism in the 1970s. Ethnic Kurdish nationalism has been fed by ethnic nationalist tendencies within Turkish state policy.

1. Well the fact is some Kurds do not know Turkish - and the worst thing is that many Kurds don't know Kurdish or Turkish properly. That is a fact - ignoring facts does not mean that they go away.
2. What is the problem with having Kurdish education in schools alongside Turkish - In Wales and Northern Ireland the state promotes local languages alongside the state language.
3. The point is not replacing Turkish with Kurdish in state institutions like hospitals but allowing for example a doctor to speak Kurdish with an old woman in an official setting without risking the loss of his job.

That was a discussion about citizenship laws...

No one has a single identity this 'ya sev ya terk et' attitude is a real sign of political immaturity and I believe that it is what holds Turkey back from real social peace. What if some one does not way to say he is a Turk but in all other respects is a good citizen - Turkey is too enthralled by symobols..

You misunderstood - I am talking about certain ethno nationalist political elites and sections of society that has helped create this situation, not Turks.
I would never say that the Kurdish nationalist are blameless - but Kurdish nationalism is basically a reactive force... the Turkish state holds most of the cards and so holds most of the responsiblity...

A new modus operandi is needed in Turkey that embraces moderate sections of Kurdists and splits them away from the violent minority...

But by refusing to see any room for compromise or change on the Kurdish issue - by not taking proactive steps - the Republic is allowing the wound to fester...

Apart from peace keeping operations, there shouldnt be anything humane about TSK acts, we are at war, if they are acting humane then heads should roll.