Guys think this way, how do you feel when you read the news on execution in China, America, Iran etc...

I am not in a position to argue the costs with an insider, it is obvious that all the costs of capital punishment are related to the appeals processes. But some questions I have to ask, aren’t the same appeals granted to people serving life sentences…? Is the cost of repeat offenders considered in figures…?

I am finding this hard to believe as well. Am I so out of touch with society…?
I can’t believe that victims’ families would cop the early release of criminals sweetly on the chin. Doesn’t matter how much support you get as the victim, one can’t easily swallow the lenient sentences handed out. I don’t want people like Martin Bryant to be cared for, rehabilitated or the subject of “human rights” groups every so many years. Take him out of the gene pool and be done with, end of story for all.

Clever usage of words there, I don’t buy it nor see it as “blood feud”.

Maybe all my skepticism stems from imagining the unimaginable. I am trying to put myself in the position of the victim, where every part of my being is rejecting that notion.

This is fundamentally where we differ, all the rest are reinforcing arguments. I personally don’t see a problem with it. Death penalty is reserved for the most extreme cases, not every killer ends up on death row. You may have the figures, what is the homicide rate in US versus those facing the capital punishment…?

Bacım, if you are so worried about executions in China, Iran, etc... I assume you have very little to worry about in your life and can't help but to envy you.

Did you know that the execution style in China is a bullet to the head...?
And they send a bill to the family of the executed, a bill for the bullet.

i think he would qualift it as:

kurd>>>> fuckface....

Turk>>>>> fantastic....


Greek>>>>> potential fuckfaces......


soon we come to shoot all the fuckers and let god sort them out....


Kaya really mate.....there is no grey area in the death penalty debate, either you take a life or you dont...

its not an issue open to qualification.....or subjective interpretations....

in China the state is so severe you often get the death penalty (or little peanut as they call the bullet....most are shot) for trivial offenses....

the state is powerful, so capable of abusing and manipulating the justice system, people are killed (families billed for the bullet) wily nilly.....

if anyone who wants to know what prison, punishment is like in a true despotic regime, read prisoner 13498 by the Welshman Robert Davies...

i know a friend of a relative who is in Chinese prison, for fraud.....he was wrongfully accused of stealing by fraud 1 mill USD, and got 15 years.....

Allan Bond in Australia stole and defrauded the public of Billions and got 3-4 years in a country club....

drug users in China get prison terms of up to 7 years if the amount is sizeable......

death penalty is not the answer, most human crimes are crimes of passion.....death penalty does not come into it....


do you know what it must feel like to face 20-30 years in a cell, with no hope of release? governed by rules that tell you what you can and cannot do....at risk from other prisoners, 24 hours a day/ seven days a week 365 days a year for so many years?....

Bro you are very wrong, my favorite malaka. You reserve the death penalty for extrememe cases. You kill, and it is proven, you die. You terrorise, you die. You hurt little children, you die.

If you catch your wife in bed with another dude and you kill, that would be a crime of passion. If someone comes into your house in the middle of the night to rob you and you put a cap into his ass, that would be self defense.

Does this make sense to you?

my favourite malaka? coming from you i guess thats some sort of compliment....


my favourite left cajone....

death penalties do not deter murder, pure and simple...in that mess of a country you call home, yes the mighty USA who has the grea-*test*-('") military but lags behind the rest of the civilised world in many social indices, most states have the death penalty....Texas where you come from as well if memory serves me well....

how many people on death row? how many added every year....?......doesnt seem to be working kaya....its the refuge of those who have little imagination to find other solutions....or who dwell in puritanical zeal of righteousness.....to punish all those to transgress in the severest of terms....

what causes crime is socio economical reasons...poverty...that forces woman to prostitute themselves....which forces people to steal to survive...etc etc etc.....its a rot, a cancer in society, poverty breeds poverty and meanness which leads to hardened criminals....is it a wonder why Harlem has such crime or East LA compton etc etc? is it a coincidence that so many criminals are in one area? what all blacks are preconditioned genetically to commit crime? or is it the abject poverty that leads to the slide into corruption and crime.....

people born not knowing any better...never having known a kind word, a world that gives them a break or shows them a kindness......

to you such people should be killed mercilessly, cause you like me have been born into good families, given opportunities that many never have....what you think if you were born into similar environments as many of these criminals you would come out smelling like roses? hog shit.....man is a product of his environment....few have the will and spiritual purity to rise above what he is born into....

as for terrorists, if you advocate killing all your generals and politicians who have terrorised Kurds for decades then ill join you in demanding Apo's head...otherwise your just projecting the usual Turkish bullshit mentality, of their animals and killers and were innocents who are forced to retaliate....

after all your terrorist is another's freedom fighter...


as for child molestors, rapist etc...as a father rest assured i am also at the whim of the same feelings that would make me want to carve them up with a blunt butter knife....but were supposed to better than that... than them.....

to show ourselves above the eye for eye mentality.....show that we respect life even those who deserve it the least.....

murdering such people only gives us selfish pleasure in seeing them suffer....what comfort does it provide the family who they have injured? does it bring the victim back or erase the injury?...no....

better to let them live in prison, a prisoner of their conscious, trapped in a cell for the rest of their miserable lives, a true example for all others to behold....i couldnt imagine a worse fate than having my freedoms taken from me...i would chose death to 30-40 years in prison.....

deman,

Have you been baptised again, how many times now...?

You are an emotional wreck, take a valium and hit the sack.

He made some great points. Why are you mocking him.

Do you know the American seriel killer, Jefrey Dahmer, who murdered 17 men? He wanted to be executed, preferring that then spending the rest of his life in isolation. He was allowedc to join the general population for work detail and was stabbed to death within two years of his sentence. Prior to that there was another attempt on his life from another inmate.

There is a different urgency between someone being put to death and someone merely imprisoned. Whilst someone may eventually accept his crime and do the time, when you are facing death you are likely going to try everything you can to avoid the sentence being carried out. Furthermore, the actual method and mode of the sentence can also be challenged.

Well Australia hasn't hung anyone in a long time, yet the outrage that the murderers are not being sent to the gallows is not that apparent. When was the last time a lynch mob turned up at a prison gates or the Parliament building demanding that someone be executed?

I checked out the Victorian homicide victims support homepage: http://www.victoriahomicide.com.au/

You check out these organisations and realise there are many projects designed to help the victims families that go beyond a righteous vengance. Some even go as far as placing victims families with murderers to talk and discuss:

There is a spin there "cared for", as if they are going to a hotel and will live a life of luxurious largess at the expense of the tax payer due to some bleeding heart liberal.

This is not the case, I don't know who Bryant is, but I assume he is a child killer. People like that should be incarcerated for life, their lot is usually a miserable one as they are placed in protective custody in the prisons as the other prisoners would kill them. They should be placed under psychiatric observation to try and get into their heads to find some answers. They are already out of the gene pool, as they are unlikely to ever be released.

That's the whole point though. If I put my self in a victim's shoes I would be a cold blooded killer. If someone touched my loved one's I would want to end them with my bare hands- but that's not the role of the criminal justice system. It is not there to carry out my emotive wishes. Otherwise, the criminal justice system will start torturing those who mug old women, those who scratch cars, those who vandalise homes etc... Because I know if I went out and saw my car had been vandalised, I would want to put the perpetrator in hospital. The role of a modern criminal justice system is to remove that anger and need for retribution and vengeance.

It is there to be a fair, objective and civilised way to punish criminals. Otherwise we may as well start flogging and lynching people.

This opens up another can of worms, as you end up with a two tier system, very much like America. When Mr Rich and charming is up for murder, he will avoid the death penalty, when it is Mr poor and Black he is sent to the gas chamber. The rates of juries imposing the death sentence on non Whites for comparable crimes is simply off the scale compared to whites or women.

Of course this is just ancillary to the main principled argument against death sentences.

I think its commendable that someone can be concerned about abuses around the world.

Yes he did, even though he went off on tangent half way through.

I agree that people are the product of their environments to a great degree, but just can't swallow the 'we are better than them' adage. Yes, the crime rates are higher in the slums but they don't reach abnormal levels of > %40-50. Instead of focusing on the law abiding citizens of the slums, who are a vast majority, we get told about the %4-5 higher crime rates.

We will never be able to find a solution to poverty and low standards, they are basically a way of life. Furthermore, people do not murder only for vengeance, some do it out of greed, some with envy, some because of lust (I know there is 3 more ).

What is the difference with mass murderers copping what is coming to them in prison, as opposed to by the state. The other inmates can carry out murders for us to feel better, but the state must remain clean and noble sounds a little flawed to me.

I am against killing people under any circumastances.
People are going to prison to think over and regret their mistakes and hopefully get enough time in to get scared off and not repeat them again.
We dont send people to prison to avenge the poeple who were hurt by them.

Now some extreme cases may surely arise where a person is deemed unable to integrate into society due to his or her peculiar and dangerous behavior. These extreme cases I believe should be dealt with A or B.

A) Evaluate their psychological condition and if they are evaluated as mentally sick they should be sent to a mental institute for several decades so they can understand what they did wrong, and help them overcome their previous lives.

B) If they are sane, and their murderous acts were done through full self knowledge of what is going on, the should be sent to medicine and drug experimentation facilities or serve indefinetally as slaves to the state.

Why kill a person? Just use him, and make him or her repay his crimes to humanity. Let the asshole or bitch serve the country for as long as they live with no pay or personal life, and have a cell as a home.

Killing though is out of the question.

If it's the most feared method for the criminals, I say give it to them.

I view putting them in solitary confinement as caring for them.
Transferring them to mental institutions is also caring for them.

I briefly talked about Bryant in my first post, he is a mass murderer. Finding some answers by getting into his head makes sense, however in the meantime I fear the justice isn't being served.

I think we are very lucky in Australia with the crime rates. Therefore, it's natural for people not to show outrage. A lot of dissidence with lenient sentences, but not many people scream for heads.

You are starting to convince me, you make very good points.
But we are not talking about petty crimes and manslaughter here.

Seems as I am generation behind to become civilized.

Emre, I know some people deserve it, terrorists, killers, rapers...etc. For example last year a tourist girl was raped by 10 men in Istanbul. These rapers did not even express any regret. On the contrary they blamed the tourist girl. Still I never defend use of death penalty, even though I believe no punishment is enough for these vile creatures and terrorists.

If the same thing happens to me? This question comes to mind.. I would kill myself, I would never want to live the rest of my life.

When I think about all these, it's very hard for me to say, but Emre, still I'm against the death penalty in principle.

Let them stay in prison for life, and to think about what they have done to the people.

Here I meant how do we feel when we read these kind of news..

http://greekturkish.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=4083

It left a very bad taste in my mouth.