Big Brave Israeli Soldiers

@Zeus

I would believe that you are no anti semit if you would have ALSO shown the pictures of the other side..little children with bombs bound around their little bodies,arab woman with explosives under their clothes etc..
This just would show the madness of the situation in palestina/israel.

Instead this you justify the hamas murders who would not hesitate to wipe out yours and mine christian families in any possible moment.

QUOTE

Gee, does that make half of Greece who criticise the Greek government, anti-Hellenic racists too?

You don´t pretend the nobel price for these words,right? greekturkish/Rolls.gif

@Zeus.

Look the bigger picture.

And ask yourself. Which one do you prefer.

The Israelis, who are prosperous, clever, have a huge history and are one of the worlds great civilizations?

Or the

Palaistinians, who in their significant part are Muslim Fundamentalists, backward and represent the same civilization like the rest of their Muslim neithbours.

Its just plain and simple the Israelis are of higher value to the world as a civilization, as a people, as an economy, as everything one can think of.

Israel is like Greece, a country that stands alone, unique, unreplacable, and with a huge historical heritage.

And thats why the world shouldnt miss it and should protect it.

@George

QUOTE

Palaistinians, who in their significant part are Muslim Fundamentalists, backward and represent the same civilization like the rest of their Muslim neithbours.

The palestinians are not "muslim fundamentalists" in their majority..but also the heritages of a rich and wonderfull heritage.

Guys..stop make this issue a "jews or arab" thing..it is not like this.
The issue is that the whole shit going on there is just plain stupid madness..it is time we all get this.

greekturkish/beerchug.gif

QUOTE (Georgios @ April 10, 2008 06:42 am)

Dude, Palaistine is oppressed for what? 40 years?

Israel? You better start counting millenias. Persians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims.
Their holy city Jerusalem was destroyed and rebuild more than 10 times. Because the Israeli population didnt have a country they were scattered across the world, hunted, dispised and killed because they were different than the mainstream Christian or Muslim population. And finaly when in the 40's after a massive genocide conducted against them by Hitler they were allowed to aquire a small patch of their historical land, 4 muslim countries attack them a decade later.

Sorry mate but what the Palaistinians are enqountering right now is not even a 1% of what the Israelis have suffered throughout the millenia.

Also about all the shit going on and the occational Israeli invasions in the Gaza strip, are the palaistinians totally innocent?

How many times have they blown up innocent civilians, in cafeterias and supermarkets?

At the end of the day even if lets say the Palaistinians did have their country? What do you think it would have been like? I strongly believe it would have been another idiot backwater nation like the rest of them down there. Religious, unsophisticated and stupid.

I am not Jewish, and I cant say that I really like Jews. Nevertheless I stongly believe that they are an important nation, and they have every right to lay claims to their historical lands.

And based from what I've seen they are civilized and they take good care of their little patch of land. They deserve every inch of the territorry they are currently living on.

You're weird. greekturkish/confused.gif

@Mavro - Why do I need to post the other side? Doesn't the media do a good enough job already in general?

@Georgios - What about the Orthodox Christian Palestinians? Do they deserve the same treatment too? Speak to the Greek Orthodox Church officials down there, ask them what Israel's oppression is like.

Let me ask you again. Why do innocent people deserve what Israel is doing?

Israel and Greece are nothing a like really, as Israel does not stand alone.
Israel has the United States standing behind it every step of the way. From the security council to statements to the worlds media. Israel receives billions in economic and military aid annually from America. What does Greece receive? Slap after slap in the face?

Greece is of huge historical importance and value too no? Yet who sides with us, who stands with us on our national issues? The French who want desperately to sell us some fighter jets nobody else wants to buy? Where are our other supposed allies, who weren't so easily swayed by the French? Why have those supposed allies, America included, gone and spat on our heritage and recognised a bunch of slav gypsies as Macedonia? Maybe its time we recognised the Basque seperatists, or Montana or Vermont or California's claims to independence, or Quebec.

Israel reliable? After everything America has done for them, they went and sold some top American military/weapons secrets to the CHINESE. Hence why Israel was kicked out/not allowed into the JSF program.

the lot of you have stuck that the french love us because they want to sell us a bunch of fighters . I say give it some time and well see if ya wrong or right.

QUOTE (Zeus @ April 10, 2008 11:40 pm)

Israel and Greece are nothing a like really, as Israel does not stand alone.
Israel has the United States standing behind it every step of the way.

yes but in the 40's when Israel was created the Israeli army comprimised of a few poorly equipped conscripts who managed to humiliate 4 well trained and well armed armies and for that they should be respected.

QUOTE

@Mavro - Why do I need to post the other side? Doesn't the media do a good enough job already in general?

Pssst..Zeus...

I tell ya a little secret bro..during the last war between the palestinians and israelis most photographers were told to shoot mostly pictures from the palestinian side..wounded palestinian girls,woman,old people..and when the reporters send pictures of the israeli civilians/vitims killed by Hamas rockets and bombs..noone in europe wanted them!

Ask any greek in here from greece...most reports in greece were purely anti-israel.
The same in germany,the same in france and everywhere in europe.

How does that fit into your view dear Zeus?

To end this "jewish control of the worlds media" shit I will just give you two news articles from the european press from 2006.
And let me add that the first one is said(by serious sources) to have been "fabricated" by british!!! journalists..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jul/25/syria.israel5

QUOTE

Red Cross ambulances destroyed in Israeli air strike on rescue mission· Volunteer paramedics demand UN guarantees
· Flags and lights prove no protection for aid teams
Suzanne Goldenberg in Tyre The Guardian, Tuesday July 25 2006 About this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Tuesday July 25 2006 on p6 of the Top section. It was last updated at 02:13 on July 25 2006.
Coffins are prepared for mass burial in the Lebanese city of Tyre. Photograph: Nasser Nasser/AP
The ambulance headlamps were on, the blue light overhead was flashing, and another light illuminated the Red Cross flag when the first Israeli missile hit, shearing off the right leg of the man on the stretcher inside. As he lay screaming beneath fire and smoke, patients and ambulance workers scrambled for safety, crawling over glass in the dark. Then another missile hit the second ambulance.
Even in a war which has turned the roads of south Lebanon into killing zones, Israel's rocket strike on two clearly marked Red Cross ambulances on Sunday night set a deadly new milestone.

Six ambulance workers were wounded and three generations of the Fawaz family, being transported to hospital from Tibnin with what were originally minor injuries, were left fighting for their lives. Two ambulances were entirely destroyed, their roofs pierced by missiles.

The Lebanese Red Cross, whose ambulance service for south Lebanon is run entirely by volunteers, immediately announced it would cease all rescue missions unless Israel guaranteed their safety through the United Nations or the International Red Cross.

For the villages below the Litani river, the ambulances were their last link to the outside world. Yesterday, that too was gone, leaving the 100,000 people of Tyre district with no way of reaching hospital other than to take to the roads themselves, under the roar of Israeli war planes.

The fateful call to the Red Cross operations room came through at about 10pm - well after dark, a time when almost no Lebanese now dare venture out.

At the Red Cross office in Tyre, three volunteer medics dressed in their orange overalls, and got into their ambulance. The plan was to drive halfway, meet the local ambulance, and transfer the three patients to their vehicle to return to Tyre.

By Nader Joudi's reckoning, the ambulances had been stopped for barely two minutes. Two patients had been loaded: Ahmed Mustafa Fawaz, who had been hit by shrapnel in the stomach, and his son, Mohammed, 14. The volunteer attendant was just easing Jamila Fawaz, 80, inside and setting up a drip when the missile struck. He managed to get the old woman and the child outside, but there was no way to reach Mr Fawaz. "It was horrible," Mr Joudi said. "He was screaming, and we couldn't do anything."

One of the members of the three-man crew from Tibnin radioed for help when another missile plunged through the roof. Ambulance crew and patients retreated to the cellar of a nearby building, then waited to be rescued, trying as best as they could to help the injured. "Each of us treated ourselves. There was no light," said Kassem Shaalan, a medic from Tyre.

By the time patients and ambulance crew reached Tyre, Mr Fawaz was unconscious after losing one leg, and suffering severe fractures to the other. His son had lost part of a foot, and his mother's body was riddled with shrapnel. Mr Joudi had shrapnel wounds in his left arm, and Mr Shaalan cuts to the face and leg.

He was adamant that the ambulances, with their Red Cross insignia on the roof, were clearly visible from the air. "I don't think there can be a mistake in two bombings of two ambulances," he said.

Although the air strike marked the first time ambulances have been hit by Israel in this war, for Mr Shaalan and the other Red Cross volunteers it was only a matter of time. After two weeks of strikes designed to choke off possible supply lines to Hizbullah guerrillas, travel to many villages was just too dangerous. Coastal villages even within a few kilometers of Tyre are cut off. In some, corpses remain trapped in the rubble for days.

But nothing is more perilous than travelling by night, and no more so than just before midnight that Sunday when another Red Cross crew set off from Tyre to pick up their injured colleagues.

"I was trembling," said Ali Deeb, one of the volunteers on the mission. "It was too dangerous, and helicopters buzzing, and all through this, I am thinking one thing: the ambulance that left half an hour before you has already been injured, and you could be next." Later yesterday afternoon, two missiles landed in the building across the road from the Red Cross office.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5216230.stm

QUOTE

How UN Lebanon post was bombed

There was fierce fighting in the Khiam area for six hours
Details of the circumstances in which the Israeli air force bombed a United Nations observation post in south Lebanon, killing four UN peacekeepers have begun to emerge.
According to diplomats familiar with the UN's initial report into the incident, the post in the town of Khiam was hit by precision-guided munition, says the BBC's Paul Adams in Jerusalem.

The report says there was fierce fighting in the area for about six hours before the post was hit, during which time UN personnel contacted the Israel military 10 times, urging them to stop firing.

Our correspondent says the UN claims that after each call, it was assured the firing would stop.

Six warning calls

A preliminary UN report said 17 bombardments landed within one kilometre of the post, and 12 artillery rounds hit within 150 metres of the structure - four of them being direct hits.

After this, the post was hit by a precision-guided weapon from an Israeli aircraft.

The Irish foreign ministry said one of its officers in the UN's Unifil peacekeeping force in south Lebanon, placed six warning calls to the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) prior to the attack.

"On six separate occasions he was in contact with the Israelis to warn them that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff in South Lebanon," Reuters news agency quoted an unnamed foreign office spokesman as saying.

"He warned: 'You have to address this problem or lives may be lost'," the spokesman said.

The Associated Press news agency named the officer as Lt Col John Molloy.

The bomb which killed the unarmed peacekeepers - Canadian, Austrian, Finnish and Chinese soldiers - hit the building and shelter of the observation post, near the eastern end of the Lebanese-Israeli border, UN spokesman Milos Struger said.

Israel has launched an investigation.

The UN post was on high ground, in an area once occupied by Israel.

Just the very first links I found..

Well..as you maybe noticed these are british sources..the french and german(not even to mention the greek,spanish and italian media) were even more harsh.
The israeli gouvernment spoke of "anti-israeli media war".

I am sorry to say it but Zeus doesnt see the picture from both sides of the river bank.

How would you feel if an idiot suicide bombers came in the cafeteria you drink your coffee everyday and blow up your sister along with some other 67 of your countrymen?

I bet you would be pissed. Very pissed. And you would want it to stop from happening ever again. So you send the army to deal with those who did this.

To put it more in a context that you'll be more familiar. Lets say some idiot FYROM suicide bomber is sent from FYROM to Thessalonica and blows up some 100 innocent Greeks buying groceries. How would you feel?

I bet you would be shouting roll up the tanks bitches we are coming.

Mavo, leave Europe, see the coverage then.
Sure we might see images of wounded or dead Palestinians here too, but its the way its presented in the nightly news, together with the poor Jews who everyone is out to get.

Georgios, I think its you who doesn't see the picture from both sides.
You keep saying I don't see the Israeli side, when in actual fact I do. Obviously they need to defend them selves, I never denied that, did I? But blowing up entire apartment blocks, to kill one terrorist, and in the process killing and injuring dozens of civilians, is defending your self is it? Its out right murder and indiscriminate killing.

IDF actions are no better then Hamas or anyone else involved.

But you guys seem to think, or at least the impression you're giving, that Israel is justified in whatever it does in response.

Be that annexing more land from Gaza and the West Bank, expanding or building new settlements in Gaza or the West Bank, blocking supplies from reaching the PEOPLE of Palestine, building walls through peoples backyards, and so on and so forth.

Here take a look at some maps, tell me how you would like it if you were forced to live under occupation in Greece, had your movement restricted even for medical care(women have had to actually give birth at checkpoints because the IDF would not let them go through to reach hospital, even though they are in labour).......oh wait, wasn't Greece occupied by the Ottoman Turks for nearly 400 years? Wasn't Greece occupied during WW2 by the Axis?

Me and you Giorgo might not have lived through it, but even though I live on the other side of the world, born outside of Greece, and with my limited Greek language skills, seem to better understand. Maybe its the old school mentality we are supposed to have over here, maybe that's also why we seem to be more active in defending Greece's national issues then Greeks back home.

user posted image

Israeli settlements in Gaza, Palestine

user posted image

Take a look at how much land Israeli will annex when the wall is complete. Is this fair fellas? What if Turkey occupied Greece, and built a wall to annex most of Greece except a few regions were you cant grow crops?

user posted image

Take a look at the West Bank settlements and occupation now.

How do you think Israelis travel between those settlements in the middle of the West Bank, Palestine, and Israel? There is a military occupation of the West Bank, with IDF checkpoints and road blocks in place. We are not talking about inside Israel here, but inside Palestine.

Are these the conditions under which a settlement is meant to be reached?

I obviously can sympathise with the suffering of the Jewish people throughout their history, but that sympathy evaporates when I see what they are doing to innocent Palestinian people, without a care in the world, and then try and justify it as defence.

Defending you're self does not involve killing innocent families sleeping in their beds.

We all agree on what Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists are, and what they are doing is wrong.

Yet why can't you see what the IDF is doing, killing innocent people, seizing more and more land, demolishing innocent peoples homes and crops to make way for new settlements, and making living conditions for ordinary Palestinians unbearable, is just as wrong?

So where should I go?
Africa?
Maybe china or to the well known pro jewish media of the middle east? greekturkish/Rolls.gif

Or maybe australia?
Can you please give me some pro israel-links from the australien media then?
I am waiting..

QUOTE

IDF actions are no better then Hamas or anyone else involved.

But you guys seem to think, or at least the impression you're giving, that Israel is justified in whatever it does in response.

Honestly dear Zeus..are you nuts?
Did you read my previous posts?

In at least a dozen posts me and others here wrote about the madness on both sides..and you still claim that we give the impression that israel is justified???

greekturkish/doh.gif

QUOTE (Mavrogenides @ April 11, 2008 04:21 am)

So where should I go?
Africa?
Maybe china or to the well known pro jewish media of the middle east? greekturkish/Rolls.gif

Or maybe australia?
Can you please give me some pro israel-links from the australien media then?
I am waiting..

Keep waiting, I don't fulfil personal requests.
I live here, I see what's on the news, I feel a need to convince or prove anything to others.

QUOTE

Honestly dear Zeus..are you nuts?
Did you read my previous posts?

In at least a dozen posts me and others here wrote about the madness on both sides..and you still claim that we give the impression that israel is justified???

So then, if we are all in agreement, why are we arguing? I know why Arte and SK are arguing with me, but why you? Seems we agree both sides are to blame no?

QUOTE

So then, if we are all in agreement, why are we arguing? I know why Arte and SK are arguing with me, but why you? Seems we agree both sides are to blame no?

No!

We are arguing cause you start a thread about the israeli crimes..you should also have shown the crimes of the Hamas.

You ask;

QUOTE

Let me ask you again. Why do innocent people deserve what Israel is doing?

Why did you never ask why innocent people deserve what the Hamas is doing??