The pockets is nonsense, Israel should fully withdraw, my problem is that rather than negotiate and come to an arrangement, they decided to start a campaign of very destructive murder.

I have never said they should not have a state, in fact it is long overdue.

As for the collective responsibility thing.....I'm not sure I like where you are going with that, but I can agree to disagree.

Well, i am not optimist about the situation and i dont see light in the tunnel. The sad thing is that there were occasions that both sides could reach a fair agreement but extremists of both sides fucked everything up.

x2

Hopefully, the mismanagement of Gaza by Hamas and the chaos that is happening there may wither their support- this will also require Israeli restraint. If there can be a break from the militants, then maybe the exploratory talks can go ahead with Abbas, the new(ish) Israeli PM is not Sharon.

Lets hope that both sides are more mature this time

@Razor

Have you ever been to sicily?Palermo?

The people there hate the mafia..allthough almost 50% of these people work direct/inderect for the coza nostra murders.
When the italian anti-cosa nostra state attorneys were kileed in 92/93 the whole island woke up and went to the streets to demonstrate vs the mafia ("basta!"-movement)still straight after that they went back to the dirty buisness..difficult to explain and I also don´t know if these things should be compared to each other.
But the Hamas,the zionists,the mafia...all of these clans/groups also take care for the "security" and the order,they care about the daily life of their places and the people there talk rather to them than to the officall gouvernments.
This is why the people also vote for them.

It is the same all over the world..palestine,isreal,even in northern ireland or northern spain.

And as we see it is almost impossible to break these chains...as long as the zionists,Hamas,ETA,IRA etc are better organised and are ready to go further than the rest of the retrospective majority of their societies there is no way we will see a better tomorrow over there.

"Basta" meaning ENOUGH.

With all due respect Mavro, the IRA ( at least the terrorist organ) is a defunct organisation. Sie sind tot.

Mavro

The realization of responsibility is the first step for the ordinary people to get his life in his own hands. I doesnt matter if you are a good and decent person. It is our silence/tolerance that destroys any potential good future. Responsibility isnt something you can use as a weapon against others. And i am sorry if i sounded like this. It is a process, a necessary step, an act of bravery, an act of ideological liberation. The average palestinian and the average Jew should take that responsibility. I have talked to both Palestinians and Israeli Jews. Living aside the idiots, most of them told me that they can reach a fair agreement with honor. I believe them.

@Kaya

Ofcourse Basta means enough..so?
The millitary IRA is dead but she can come back every day..as the ETA also has been declared "dead" so many times.

@Razor

Exactly..it is the bravery of the simple people who keeps these extremists assholes away.
Only if the democratic majority is on alarm (not really 24h/365 days,but from time to time) any society is able to keep at least the most important things on balance.
Far away from perfect..but still better than waht we see in other regions of europe and the world in general.

Yes, this is what i am talking about the "responsibility". Let us remember what real democracy is all about. The will of people. Not the will of certain lobbies, groups, think tanks etc etc etc. If the citizens dont care to protect their rights, no state will do it for them...

stick them in my face? i can suggest were you can stick those treausred litte nuggets of memory you suppossedly have...no offence of course...your heavy handed conduct requires the same in return....

did you not follow a dozen of my posts where i admited my response was in anger initially? i still stand by what i said, many jews, do have the chosen people mentality....and it can not be otherwise matey....when your whole religion tells you God chose you above all others....at the very least it gives you the feeling that your are chosen, at the worst, it leads extreme Jews being racist, calling people gentiles etc with a strictly derogarotory meaning...

again Matey, what you think means less to me than whatever i wipe off my shoes after having stepped into it.....

if to your staggering intellect and abundant moral righteousness, enough for all of us here i should think....criticising israel for its horrendous stance on the palestinian issue is anti semitic...then so be it....i really dont care what you call me, you do not know me.....and i think its best that way...


as for turning people into soap...nice attempt at association....but i have indicated my belief that the holocaust happened...and it was the worst event man has perpetrated on his own kind...

but unlike you, i dont accept it as a justification or excuse for th Israelis to commit the crimes they do in Palestine...

Just a simple translation for our friends that do not speak Italian or other latin languages. Don't read into it so much.

Most of the Greeks can understand Italian, you know
We arent mongols





























Hahaha, joking ofcourse, mate. I just want it to say it just for once

Great to know... Thanks for the info.

Well, i hope it didnt insult you, it was a joke, maybe bad but joke. Anyway, np.

No worries.